Comments on: Christ the Rock http://instituteofbiblicaldefense.com/2009/11/christ-the-rock/ Upholding and Defending the Christian Faith Fri, 11 Mar 2011 06:05:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: John Hoyum http://instituteofbiblicaldefense.com/2009/11/christ-the-rock/#comment-25 John Hoyum Fri, 13 Nov 2009 05:20:18 +0000 http://instituteofbiblicaldefense.com/?p=496#comment-25 I speak of "catholicity" as those teachings commonly held by all Christians. I as a Lutheran and you (I think) as an Evangelical hold a common set of beliefs grounded in the witness of the New Testament. The errors of medieval Catholicism existed for only about 400 years before the Reformation began. So the modern Roman Catholic Church, which is really defined by the council of Trent, is about as old as the Magisterial Reformation. But that doesn't have anything to do with your original post. In essence, we are in fundamental agreement. JH PS, I'm a student of Dr. Fernandes' at Crosspoint. I speak of “catholicity” as those teachings commonly held by all Christians. I as a Lutheran and you (I think) as an Evangelical hold a common set of beliefs grounded in the witness of the New Testament. The errors of medieval Catholicism existed for only about 400 years before the Reformation began. So the modern Roman Catholic Church, which is really defined by the council of Trent, is about as old as the Magisterial Reformation. But that doesn’t have anything to do with your original post. In essence, we are in fundamental agreement.

JH

PS, I’m a student of Dr. Fernandes’ at Crosspoint.

]]> By: Matthew J Coombe http://instituteofbiblicaldefense.com/2009/11/christ-the-rock/#comment-24 Matthew J Coombe Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:43:55 +0000 http://instituteofbiblicaldefense.com/?p=496#comment-24 You are essentially agreeing with me. The espiscopate arose and was sustained by the influence of the apostolic fathers. The reason they could so easily refute gnosticism is because Iranaeus was close with Polycarp, a direct disciple of John (the disciple whom Jesus loved). It is for this reason why you never see major heresies arising early. The students of the eye witnesses of Christ were there to refute them. I agree with you that was not until the Reformation that questions arose about the established, Catholic dogma. Remember, most of those heresies came about at the end of the medieval period and were really the mark of the Renaissance rather than the later Reformation. Thomas Aquinas is the first major theologian with obvious Catholic influence in his writings, but his writing is still in accordance with biblical orthodoxy and he wrote over 1500 years after Christ. Further, despite all the heresies that arose during this time, none contradict my thesis of the blog. The church has never wavered as to the substance of Christ. Even as the Catholic church venerates the saints and deifies Mary, they are not straying from the deity of Christ. They may be marring it by comparing Him so closely with Mary, but they never deny it! Good post! For love and peace, Matthew J You are essentially agreeing with me. The espiscopate arose and was sustained by the influence of the apostolic fathers. The reason they could so easily refute gnosticism is because Iranaeus was close with Polycarp, a direct disciple of John (the disciple whom Jesus loved). It is for this reason why you never see major heresies arising early. The students of the eye witnesses of Christ were there to refute them.

I agree with you that was not until the Reformation that questions arose about the established, Catholic dogma. Remember, most of those heresies came about at the end of the medieval period and were really the mark of the Renaissance rather than the later Reformation. Thomas Aquinas is the first major theologian with obvious Catholic influence in his writings, but his writing is still in accordance with biblical orthodoxy and he wrote over 1500 years after Christ.

Further, despite all the heresies that arose during this time, none contradict my thesis of the blog. The church has never wavered as to the substance of Christ. Even as the Catholic church venerates the saints and deifies Mary, they are not straying from the deity of Christ. They may be marring it by comparing Him so closely with Mary, but they never deny it!

Good post!

For love and peace,
Matthew J

]]> By: John Hoyum http://instituteofbiblicaldefense.com/2009/11/christ-the-rock/#comment-23 John Hoyum Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:07:03 +0000 http://instituteofbiblicaldefense.com/?p=496#comment-23 It is quite an intriguing issue. In my judgement, the sustenance of apostolicity in the Church was due to the development of the episcopate between 60 AD and 150 AD. By the time of St Irenaeus in the late second century, the strength of the office of bishop was such that that the attacks of the Gnositcs were easily refuted. Thus, the apostolic Gospel was preserved, left untainted by heresies external to the Church catholic. The Nicene Council basically put to rest objections to apostolic Christology. It was not until the radical Reformation that questions arose about established, catholic dogma. John It is quite an intriguing issue. In my judgement, the sustenance of apostolicity in the Church was due to the development of the episcopate between 60 AD and 150 AD. By the time of St Irenaeus in the late second century, the strength of the office of bishop was such that that the attacks of the Gnositcs were easily refuted. Thus, the apostolic Gospel was preserved, left untainted by heresies external to the Church catholic. The Nicene Council basically put to rest objections to apostolic Christology. It was not until the radical Reformation that questions arose about established, catholic dogma.

John

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